Casey Doran

 December 29, 2023

The Bunny Boy From Gummo - Jacob Sewell Interview

I met Jacob Sewell in September 2015 when I was casting my only feature, Pink Cloud. I knew a ton of people have seen the image of him with the accordion online, obviously as well as seeing the movie, but the actual human behind the character was and still is basically unknown. The mystique of being recognizable by name from a cult film has affected his life to a net positive. We talk Gummo, us being drunk half the time shooting Pink Cloud, the Supreme drop, skateboarding, martial arts and he hammers off some random stories. Knowing him, though, he left out a ton of shit. This is his only ever public interview besides the Gummo panel at Retro Invasion Weekend.

BEHIND THE SCENES OF GUMMO

Gummo sucks.

It definitely is not good. Well, it depends what perspective you’re looking at it from.

I was looking at comments this morning and it’s very split.

People either think it’s a groundbreaking movie or what the fuck? I could not understand a damn thing. Who are those people? Are they real people? 95% of them, yes.

Let’s talk about that initial process.

Process, to put a label on it, would give it more credit than it’s worth. I was skating down Belmont University with a handful of buddies. (Douglas Green from) Riders in the Sky, his son James Green was with me. We stopped at the Circle K that’s right across from Belmont University and this fucking weird little station wagon pulls up with this awkward looking dude in the front. He’s sticking his head out, hey guys, I’m shooting a film. Does anybody want to skateboard on camera? Yeah, of course. He had us all line up on the cinderblock wall, took Polaroids of us and wrote all our names and numbers down on it. Before we left, he was asking me what I thought about being a skateboarding bunny rabbit. Yeah sure, whatever that is. A day later, and this is landline days, my mom said I had a phone call. I pick up the phone and Harmony said he’d talk to my mother too, but if you were okay with this, let’s proceed. A day or so after that phone call, we met at a place called Bongo Java, which is directly next door to that Circle K. There’s a weird little house next door we used to drink and smoke weed at. We met at Bongo Java, and my mom had to be there because I was under the age of eighteen. We signed some contracts and immediately we were shooting shit. Definitely strange going from no responsibilities whatsoever to all of a sudden, Harmony Korine’s requirements.

What kind of requirements we talking?

Some of the scenes with me and dead cats were during storms. The concept of the movie in Xenia, Ohio was post-tornado that tore the city to shit and this is kind of the aftermath. So, if it was a stormy rainy day, he wanted to film with me. I remembered a couple times, I would tell my mom I was at a buddy of mine, Lochland’s house. We would leave his house and go to somebody else’s house, and he would still track me down somehow. He could still find me and this was before cell phones, even before people had beepers. I guess he would be like a detective. Ok, so he told his mom he was at Lochland’s. Let’s talk to Lochland’s mother. Lochland’s mother said he was at Zach Wolfe’s house, then that mother says whoever else’s house.

I was talking to Jacob Reynolds and Nick Sutton about how Harmony would bet y’all to do random weird shit for money. You have any stories?

I wish I could actually remember some of those. Keep in mind, I was twelve but I was an active weed smoker. That’s probably why I was so quiet most of the times. I know a couple of times, Chloë Sevigny was like, fuck you Harmony, you’re not about to have him do that shit. She was responsible for me on set. There’s some legal term for it. My mom, also, was the (EMT) on set. He wanted me to bomb this hill, the scene where I’m skating down the hill and my hands are out. That hill was fucking phenomenal. It was a 15% grade. He wanted me to start at the very very very very top, but we started in the dead smack middle. I wouldn’t have had a problem starting from the top, but that banana board he had me on, the trucks were not wide and not tightened. If you’re going down and you get the speed wobbles, there’s no saving you. I did a couple kickflips on that thing. Chloë was not letting him have me start way the fuck up at the top. I remember they were in quite a disagreement and I kinda just sat there quietly. They were having a moment. I woulda been fucked up if I would have tried to bomb that hill.

How accurate do you think the movie was with portraying the truth of poverty? Have you seen or experienced any of what the movie portrayed?

Minus the tornado, pretty fucking accurate. The way that Chloë and them don’t have anything so they’re putting tape on their nipples, when somebody of a higher socioeconomic status would go get make-up and a nicer bra.

There has been times in my life where I have seen the bottom of the gutter, not because I was poor, but because I put myself there through poor decisions. I think every city has it, even Xenia. There’s some crazy shit poor people do just to pass time and to make themselves not go crazy. The unfortunate part attached to that is lower education. The higher education you have, the more likely you’re going to be able to pull yourself out of those situations. As much as people don’t realize it, you conduct yourself how you think others see you. Poor people need access to education.

Those two kids cussing at you and shooting you, saying slurs, going insane. Did kids around you talk like that?

I cussed but it wasn't crazy like that. My grandma and my mom would have “knocked your block off.” Vein in her forehead pops out a little bit and she’ll snatch you up by the arm. This was when you were allowed to spank your kids and nobody called CPS on you. We didn’t get spanked all the time. You just knew better.

Those kids got in trouble in between shots, for saying something that the mother didn't like. I think it was when they mentioned pussy, or something, like where the fuck did you learn that? She would remind them that once we leave here, you cannot act like this. That was back when West Nashville was West Nashville. Trailers, tiny homes, poverty.

more Gummo

Favorite/worst memory on Gummo set?

Definitely favorite would be making out with Chloë and Carisa. They were both in Kids. I think I was more in love with Chloë post-shooting, but during I had this super under-the-radar crush on Carisa. We shot that scene maybe twenty times. It was fake rain that they made with this system you hook up to the garden hose. At first I was pecking them, then Harmony was like, you’re finna put them in the bed. I want you to tongue punch her throat box. It slowly graduated to where he was accepting the level of making out. Afterwards, looking at the photos that Jean-Yves Escoffier took, some of them captured the moment so well. I was like, yeah Chloë’s fucking dope. I’m trying to remember if I tried to reach out to her because I saw that Cribs where she was like, these are the bunny rabbit ears. I think she made them out of clothes hangers. Carisa was the one who did all my tattoos (with the close up on the hands).

Mac spelled backwards is Cam. Camaro is my parent’s favorite car. Those were supposed to be my lines in there. I guess kinda like when we shot Pink Cloud, prearranged shit on paper, I don’t do well, but if you get in there and just be yourself, I can do that good. I freeze up or something. Luckily for the bunny boy, he was a deadpan character. He was absent of all emotions and reactions.

The worst memory was shooting that scene jumping through the field. There was no fake rain that day. It was the last day. One of the last shots they had to do was me running through that field with the fake dead cat and just holding it up to the camera. That was in a real fucking storm. It was maybe 65-70 degrees. I was a rail then so I was cold real quick. We shot that so many different ways, so many different angles.

I’m assuming that cat at the end is the cat Foot Foot that went missing. Who killed Foot Foot? How did you have the body when everyone else was killing the cats?

The unspoken thing about the bunny boy, he was also selling cats to that market. He would keep up with those guys and what they were up to, to snatch a sale. I know that’s something they hinted at but I remember when Harmony was trying to give me inspiration, I was their competition in the market, so to speak. Now, how true that is in the playout of the actual movie and the script, I don’t know.

That prosthetic cat was actually pretty cool the way they made it. There was one that had connections to it. You go back behind the bush and it has this little pump that makes it looks like it’s breathing. The prop team did a good job on that one. I remember them putting the little tube that went behind the bush. It looked like a really dying cat. Technology back then was super primitive.

net positive

Do you think you were exploited?

I don’t want to insinuate bad or negative things towards Harmony. I know it’s what he wanted to do artistically. I don’t know if he did it on purpose or not but he definitely took advantage of our section of the cast. We probably got paid more than the rest but it was minuscule. Exploitation…? I mean, yeah. I guess what he was trying to get was so extreme, not to the point where it’s so extreme that it’s crazy, but to the point where people like Chloë were saying we couldn’t do it and you’re jeopardizing their safety. Behind the scenes, I’m sure they have their little jokes about how they were able to get this guy to do this or that. I’m not stupid. I know damn right you’re gonna get drunk and say something stupid. But, yeah, he would get you to do some crazy shit. He definitely knew (we) didn’t have much. (We) got offered money to do something stupid that lasted fifteen minutes, not knowing that down the line you might get royalties if you don’t sign this lump sum payment. That’s stretching it a little, but you know what I’m saying?

I stopped getting royalties and I was like, what the fuck? It wasn’t much. I’d get like a dollar here and there. When Belly came out, I was in high school. I got a $700-$800 check for that.

I remember you saying you got bigger royalties for Belly.

I got the biggest royalty out of our movie being in another movie. It kinda shows the level of exploitation in itself without saying anything.

(The contract was more.) In total, I remember the Gummo contract being around $20,000. It was in a trust fund. I was smoking weed a lot then. I’d tell my mom to pull out a hundred bucks. She’d be like, you’re pulling out a hundred bucks every other week. You’re gonna run out of that money. I would buy an ounce of weed. That’s when a hundred bucks could get an ounce.

Do you feel like you came out with a net positive from the experience of being in these movies? It might have been uncomfortable in the moment but it paid off? How do you feel overall looking back?

Life-wise, yeah. Absolutely. I know I haven’t done much but when it comes to conventions and stuff, like Retro Invasion, I met some really cool people. The Queens of NC-17, just meeting them was extremely worth it. All of that. Meeting people and connections to people who really are into that whole of side of cinema, cinematography, videography, photos, paintings. I met a tattoo artist over in Europe. We were penpals for a minute and I flew over there. Meeting all of these people, who have some sort of artistic connection. Brilliant people, like you, like people you would never meet in just a normal day-to-day life. I would say the biggest take away from it all is networking abilities, not so much business connected, but the good people I’ve met from it.

It was definitely a life experience. I always think back to my uncle Byron, do you understand how much pussy you’re going to get when this comes out? I was being modest, blah blah. I didn't right off the bat, then I went to high school and halfway through high school Belly happened and I had all these “friends.” I didn't even know (about Belly.) Someone came up to me, man I saw you in that film. DMX is in it, Method Man. Damn, these are my hip-hop idols, especially Method Man. Anything Method Man, Wu Tang, that’s skateboarding history to the bone. I ended up finding out what it was. I figured it was covered somehow where I didn’t get royalties, but I did. That one lump sum was bigger than any other royalty check I got from Gummo, way more.

Has anyone ever had a negative reaction to you being in Gummo?

No, nobodies ever been like that in a negative way. My buddy at work saying Pink Cloud was a waste of an hour and a half of his life, that’s pretty much as bad as it got.

skateboarding & the supreme drop

They cut your image from the Supreme/Gummo drop?

My brother was kind of my liaison for that. At first it was going good. They were going to make some skateboards and some Supreme merch. I’ve got a huge background in skateboarding so I let all my buddies back home know. Everybody was stoked. Then, last minute they say they’re cutting the bunny boy out. My brother said they were still going to pay me but it kinda makes no sense. You’d think they would squash the whole thing. Especially being a skateboarding bunny boy, you’re not going to have him on? Or even sitting on the toilet with the accordion that is all over the place. I’m sure they still made sales because they used (Jacob) Reynolds in the tub with the nasty spaghetti and shit. Their sales would have doubled, if not tripled if they threw the bunny boy on one of those. If they made a set where it was like, Reynolds… Sutton… bunny boy. So, yeah, we were dumbfounded by that. Animal advocates, organizations or people just wanting to raise hell I think had something to do with it. I remember me and my brother talking about that. The image they were going to use was the one holding the cat, if I’m remembering correctly. I hope it wasn’t because I was asking for too much money. I really don’t know what the true reason is, but I know that is what was told to my brother and eventually me, that it might raise issues with certain organizations. It’s not like Gummo inspired people to kill cats.

What is your experience with skateboarding, maybe specifically touch on Atlanta skateboarding?

I lived in Atlanta for a minute. The piss ledge (Trader Vic’s hubba) lives up to all the history behind it. It really is a piss ledge. I guess they called it the piss ledge because people snuck in there and pissed inside there. I know I did a backside boardslide and a backside noseslide. Frontside 5-0 and I think that's it. I remember we were recording a lot of runs at (black blocks). I couldn’t tell you what we did there but I know we had some stuff on footage. I had a Canon GL2 that I bought for like $2500. To tell you the truth, I think John Hood has the footage but RIP. I do have a friend back home in Nashville that somehow got ahold of John Hood’s computer and he’s been able to pull some stuff off of there. He said he has this whole section of a video that me and Hood were putting together. As soon as I get that, I’ll send it to you. There’s footage of us in Key West, Florida. Skateboarding probably saved my life as well as ruined my life all at the same time. The people and the brotherhood is ridiculous. I don’t know if it’s like that anymore but you’d stick up for one another. The guys on their BMXs - I don’t even know how many times there was some kind of Westside Story street brawl that broke out because they tried to snake you on a run or something. It’s directly associated with my childhood, teenage years, even up into my twenties and early thirties.You can parallel skateboarding with all that shit. If I made some wiser choices, I would probably have more positive things to say. You know you live on that shifty grey line when you’re a skateboarder. You got your buddies that drink and drug and you got your buddies that don’t at all. You try to find time for them all to go skate and sometimes they alienate one another. Unfortunately, I ended up on that side of the bridge that was the drinking and drugging skate dudes. Probably got me in more trouble than it should have to be honest.

PINK CLOUD, DECEMBER & MARTIAL ARTS

Do you think Pink Cloud comes off as a rip off?

I didn't get that. I know who you are. That’s probably the difference between the people (that would claim that) and me. I know who you are and your type of creativity when it comes to photo and video and shit like that. I mean, fuck, you carry around Wallette for God’s sake. I mean, come on, how long have you had Wallette? I can see how someone could portray some sort of similarities but that never came across my mind.

Is there anything else we can say about the movie we shot?

Nah, because during shooting that, I stayed pretty fucked up.

Oh yeah, the whiskey wasn’t even prop whiskey. It was real whiskey.

Yeah, that was real shit. We were drinking all that whiskey then we spray painted that one twelve pack pink. I was drinking those back to back and I puked a bunch. I know that when it came to my lines in Pink Cloud, I was so fucking drunk that I couldn’t even read the fucking piece of paper. Remember that shit in the hotel room? You were like, I’ll just record your audio and somehow take that and put it into the film. I wanted to be brutally honest when I was drunk because that was going to be the only fucking way you’ll get it.

Do you have any stories from December? I can’t find December anywhere online. I tried to contact the director, nothing. That shit doesn’t exist as far as I’m concerned.

I know it happened. December was fun. It was shot in Savannah, Georgia.

I remember when we talked about it. They were driving through Nashville and somehow we ran into one another. They had a friend call me and told me to meet them at this bar in East Nashville. I remember I had a backpack full of cocaine. The smallest pocket on the back that you keep your pens and small notebooks in, that thing was busting at the seams. I remember I was nervous just sitting in their car. If you’re sitting in a car outside of a bar in East Nashville, the cops are bound to pull through.

During my time in Savannah filming that and it was sometime around Halloween because I went to the little pump bar. Baroness and Black Tusk was playing. I fell out of that bar. The owner of the bar shut it down, normal hours, and we drank until maybe four or five in the morning. When I stepped out of the bar, I forgot there was a step down and I fell all the way down to that cobblestone fucking sidewalk and bounced my chin. I almost got locked up while I was there. I walked into a hotel. I need a hotel, I can’t find my way back to where I'm going. It was a ritzy place, $125 a night (in 2007). They said I didn’t have enough on the card. I was like, DO YOU KNOW WHO I AM? I’M THE FUCKING BUNNY BOY! They called the cops on me. Fuck no, they didn’t know what I was talking about. Some drunk motherfucker is in here claiming he’s some dude in a movie. The cops came with the paddy wagon saying they were going to take me in if you can’t get in touch with somebody to come get you. I’ve got the guy’s number who asked me to come down here. I called them. They came and got me. I can’t believe I tried to pull that shit. I don’t know what I was thinking. That’s how drunk I was.

December and Pink Cloud introduced me to some cool people and got me out of town for a little while. Especially when we shot Pink Cloud because I was living in Michigan. I was living in the armpit of the fucking nation. Michigan sucks. I fucking hate Michigan.

You’ve been into martial arts?

Yeah, it’s my way of life. It was there for me when I was younger at a time when I needed discipline and direction. It helped me out a lot. Luckily, I didn’t fall into this strip mall dojo type places with the big windows. Come look at us. Nah, not under Sensei McClain. It is traditional to the bone. We didn't even have heat or A/C. It’s been amazing, especially the history of martial arts in the United States. Being from a traditional school, you meet some of the most world-renowned martial artists through USKK, PKC. The USKA, which is the alliance and originally the association that Master Trias started. My sensei’s sensei and Master Trias were real tight.

Springwater was our watering hole. Everyone would meet there. There was plenty of shows there. We would go down there every once in a while after the dojo. It used to be one of Al Capone’s speakeasies. We used to throw all these weird parties. We had a Halloween Prom that was at Springwater. I got into it with three dudes out back and took care of all three of them. I used techniques that Master Mcclain taught me. Of course, I was way willing to do that, which you shouldn’t be. The purpose of it is actually the opposite.

It’s definitely a way to conduct your life. If everybody did it, this world would be at peace. I know that seems backwards. Negative attitudes, if you carry that and represent a school or even an association, you will be ousted. They don’t want to be associated with somebody like that. That is absolutely against everything that it stands for. When I’m dead and gone, I’m sure Gummo and bunny boy will be in there as part of my legacy, hopefully not all of it. My true legacy will be martial arts and Okinawan Shuri-ryū. There’s no doubt about it. I do it every day. Every morning, I have about a 45 minute routine. I wake up and play this stupid game on my phone until 7:20, then I run forms, taezu naru wazas, kihons, ippons, maybe a couple sentes, then I run out some weapon forms. I bow out then start my day. I hit the makiwara about 400 times a day. It’s funny, because when I get to work, I’ve just worked out for 45 minutes doing something that’s very spiritual. Tis my life.

RANDOM STORIES, sobriety & conclusion

Anything else, any other random stories? Band stories?

When you’re put on the spot like that, it’s like no I can’t, but there’s so many stories. Usually, someone tells somebody I’m around.. Back when I did drink, we’d be at a bar. Someone would be like, don’t you know who he is, he’s the rabbit! The bunny rabbit! How many times that’s gotten me in someone’s bed is crazy, absolutely crazy. Remember at the convention, that random girl wanted me to tattoo her. She wanted me to get drunk, then tattoo my interpretation of me sitting on the toilet and then sign it. I have tattooed but only stick and poke.

Class Six was cool. I picked up bass before I picked up drums. I had good rhythm. My brother was the drummer in Murdered Minority (and Cheap Time). Murdered Minority was huge and it was big for political-type punk rock, tries to raise the eyebrows of people and to get people to pay attention to all the wrongdoings in the world. When I was in Class Six, I played bass for this band and we had a tattoo gun. That was a bad idea. We would snort dope and stay up all night giving one another horrible tattoos. Another band I was in, Neon Deads, played Birmingham, Alabama at a trailer converted into a bar. I was in this super Motley Crue/punk phase. I’ve always been into punk and metal. This one girl kept sticking out. I’ve gotta say something to her. By the time I get to her, Matt Walker has already told her that I’m the bunny boy. There’s this big pool party after the show. The whole apartment complex was punk and metal heads. It was fucking awesome. When Matt Walker finally found me the next day, I was still naked. I answered the door naked. We gotta get back on the road, back to Nashville. I found out the morning, and I was mad at myself, she was engaged and her man was off in the Navy in Operation Iraqi Freedom. I’m like, what the fuck! I’m so mad at myself. Like I said, the bunny boy character got me laid a lot.

Guitar Wolf! I get backstage, hanging out with them, Bass Wolf was hitting on me. America wasn't as liberated then as it is now. Still now, it isn’t as tolerant as it should be. He was leaning up on the wall, and I’m reaching for my beer, and I grab a beer full of cigarette butts and almost drink it. It was at the back of Exit Inn. I also got to party with Jesco White. We huffed some, um, sharpies. We huffed these big ole sharpies that were in his back pocket.

Real life: people that don't end up in a crazy independent film: born, school, college, then you have kids. Of course, my kids are definitely in those bullet points. So proud of both of them, extraordinary human beings. My oldest son is killing it. He's at University and he’s on the lacrosse team. Student dorms over there. If you’re of higher academic standards, they put you in a section that is guaranteed to have lower amounts of things getting in your way, the lowest level of distraction possible. He’s in a dorm room without a roommate on that floor. He’s got an academic scholarship.

I’m obsessed with this story about when you “jumped a creek.”

I know I was a freshman. She - her name was Kelly. She has this little white Chevy Nova with a twelve inch subwoofer in it. It bumped and I remember we all loved riding around in it. We were drinking St. Ides passion fruit. This is old school shit. They tasted like shit. Back then, I couldn’t even drink beer because I would throw up immediately, but I could drink these. I guess I had one or two forty ounces because that’s what we would buy. Everybody was drunk and the car was full. Kelly asked me if I wanted to drive. I had made it to literally a mile from my house and there’s this hill that goes down then an immediate right. I remember she was in the passenger seat turned around talking to the people in the back seat. When I turned, she fell into my lap. My right arm was in my lap. She fell on my right arm, which at the same time hit my right leg on the accelerator. I’m going around this curve. I couldn’t straighten out onto the street because my hand was locked in. We just went around the corner and it kept going around. There was this creek that just ran down it and we jumped the fucking creek. The sides were made out of limestone. We completely jumped the fucking creek and hit the tree on the opposite side. When I hit the tree, my head went forward and slammed onto the steering wheel. Broke my nose and lacerated my eyelid almost off. I got out of the car and when I shut the door, there was my handprint in blood on the door. I run home. I walk in the door and my mom asks what’s going on. I can hear the sirens in the background so at this point I think they’re going to show up at my front door. I told my mom all sorts of stuff and I know she didn’t buy it. That was the school year directly following the shooting of Gummo. I’m lucky to be alive to be honest.

It’s important you’re sober now. That could have killed you easily. You want to talk about being sober now and how much better you probably feel?

It’s night and day. For one, I’ve got extra money and I’m not chasing something. I had an alcohol budget that I had set knowingly. I knew I had to make a specific amount of money to get a case of beer every two days. Crazy. The mental clarity. I don’t have to worry about anything. If someone is worried that I was on something or drunk at a specific time, I don’t have to worry about that. I know I was sober when whatever happened. I know the date that I got clean so if anybody tries to say I was fucked up, I can say, you obviously were because that date does not coincide my soberversary or whatever they call it.

Also the people around us dealing with our shit, they don’t have to fucking worry anymore.

Yeah! Big time. How ever many people back in Nashville that have caught on from word of mouth or whatever, they probably think it’s a bunch of bullshit. They’re probably like, Jacob? Yeah fucking right!

I asked Leo Fitzpatrick what it was like jacking off in the nineties, you wanna answer?

I was masturbating well before 1996. I remember a couple times, I masturbated at my Grandma’s house. It was really fucking weird. It was one of those where you stood above the toilet and shot it straight into the toilet. Made plenty of shower babies in the nineties. You gotta use your imagination, man.